COOPER SCHOOL ORAL HISTORY PROJECT

EDITED DRAFT

Gino Lucchesini

Audiotape

[This is an interview with Gino Lucchesini on June 30, 2004.
The interviewer is Judy Bentley. The transcriber is Jolene Bernhard.]

 

JB: OK, today is June 30, 2004. This is Judy Bentley and I’m interviewing Gino Lucchesini.
Also present for the interview, Mae Lucchesini and Philippa Nye.

Mr. Lucchesini, can you tell me first of all when your family came to the Youngstown area and
why?

GL: My dad [Guido] came [on August 24, 1912]. My mother [Atilia], I believe she came a
year later in 191[3]. My sister was born 191[4] and then I was born in 1917. I think those dates
are pretty correct.

JB: Why did they come to Youngstown?

GL: Because other people from his area settled here. One tells another and they write to each
other – there were opportunities here and he’d be among friends. He’d be more comfortable than
being in a strange area where you don’t know anybody. So, that’s why he came here.

JB: Where was he coming from?

GL: He was coming from Ponti [Ponti was a small area like Youngstown to West Seattle]. The
Italian name of the town is Borgo a Buggiano [smiling at the pronunciation]. You’ll have to
spell it.

JB: [laughing] I’ll have you spell it for me.

PN: Italians are usually pretty phonetic!

GL: Ponti is P-O-N-T-I. Buggiano. B-U-G-G-O-N- [pauses to think]

PN: O?

GL: O-N-O. Buggiano.

JB: We’ll find it. This was in northern Italy?

GL: Yes, it was near Luca. Luca, I think that’s where the Leaning Tower of Pisa is. Is that in
Luca? You better check that.

[Tape cuts out]

JB: Were there other people from northern Italy in Youngstown then? The other Italians you
say?

GL: Yes, yes. There were friends that they knew in Italy. People their own age that migrated
over here.

JB: What kind of work did your father do when he first came?

GL: Actually, his first job was with the railroad. That was common in those days for
immigrants to go to work for the railroad, you know, building tracks, whatever. Then his next
job was in the steel plant. It was close to his home.

JB: Which railroad was he working on or where? I mean, was it in Seattle?

GL: It was in Seattle, yes.

JB: You went to Cooper School, starting with kindergarten?

GL: Yes, kindergarten up to the fifth grade. Then we moved up in West Seattle, what they call
West Seattle. I mean this is all West Seattle but this is known as Youngstown. West Seattle,
well, it was just a different name, different area. We moved up there, then I went to Holy Rosary
School for [three] years.

JB: What was Cooper like – Youngstown School – like when you went there?

GL: Yes, Youngstown. What do you mean what was it like?

JB: Well, let’s start with the building. Do you remember the building itself?

GL: The building hasn’t changed has it?

JB: There was an old wooden building.

GL: I have a faint idea of that wooden building but I can’t place it.

JB: OK.

PN: You started in 1923, right, 1923 was when you started school?

GL: I can’t hear.

ML: What time did you start school? What year did you start school?

GL: Well, I was born in 1917. I started kindergarten when I was five, it would be 1922.
Twenty-two… well, I graduated from grammar school in [19]31.

PN: And that was from Holy Rosary?

GL: Yes.

PN: So, it was [19]29 when they built the addition.

GL: I left Youngstown [after] the fifth grade, so that was 192[7]. No, I was born in [19]17 and
five would be [19]22, I started school. So, five would be 1927 when I left Youngstown.

JB: You were telling me about the teachers, some of the teachers you had. Do you remember
the teachers you had at Youngstown?

GL: Yes, Miss Nickels. [Nicol was 8th grade teacher in 1927; Nelson was 1st grade teacher in
1922. Waterhouse was kindergarten teacher in 1922.] She was my kindergarten teacher. And I
remember Miss [Jennie] Jones, that was the last year I was there. Miss Jones, she was the fifth
grade teacher. Miss [Edna] Hackett, she was I believe the seventh grade teacher because my
brother had Miss Hackett, and I remember Miss Hackett talking to me after my brother graduated
from grammar school. When I got up to the fourth or fifth grades, for some reason or another
she talked to me, she asked about my brother. I remember she was the seventh grade teacher.

JB: He was older, your brother? [eight years older]

GL: He played the accordion, so he was kind of well-known. That was rare in those days. He
played pretty good, so he got a reputation for himself.

JB: Did he play in school?

GL: Well, he played more in high school than he did in grammar school. He started playing
about the time he was getting out of grammar school. In high school he played good.

JB: What were the teachers like?

GL: Teachers? They were real nice teachers. Yes, I remember Miss Jones, she was a red-
haired woman. She had a lot of freckles. She was not too tall, kind of stout. Real nice.
Miss Hackett, seventh grade teacher, she was thin. She was thin, she wasn’t very heavy.
Miss Nickels, she was young. My kindergarten teacher, she was young, she must have been
about twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-two years old. I say she was pretty, I don’t remember
exact. She was an attractive young girl. She was my kindergarten teacher.

JB: Do you remember what you were studying, any of the subjects or activities at school?

GL: I remember my favorite subject was math. We called it arithmetic in those days. That was
my favorite subject, I loved arithmetic. In the second or third grade when we first learned
addition, the teacher used to write little columns on the blackboard. Two and three. One and
five. Up to ten. She’d have about twenty problems on there and I could put them down as fast
as I could write them. Then, when they had open house for parents, she had these little
arithmetic problems on the board so my mom could see what I could do.

[The group laughs]

JB: What were the other children like at Youngstown? Do you remember any?

GL: [thinking] Well, what were they like? I don’t think it was any different than it is today.
We knew each other and we played with each other.

PN: Do you remember what it was like in terms of numbers of Italians and different groups?
Like where people came from?

JB: Were there many Italian children in the school? What groups were there?

GL: There were not too many, no. There was Dave Mazzoni and his brother Enzo. And the
Baldi’s, Lily Baldi and her sister Fannie. They all went to Youngstown [also Louie Baldi].

ML: Rimpini?

GL: Oh, Robert Rimpini [also Bill Rimpini?]. They were all Italian people. Tognarelli [Homer
and Lola]. They all lived in Youngstown there. And who else? I can’t think of anybody else
right now.

JB: Did you play with children from just the Youngstown area or from Pigeon Point and
Riverside? Do you remember?

GL: You know, there’s Longfellow Creek, goes through Youngstown. The kids on this side,
they used to call them the Twenty-Sixth Avenue gang. I lived on the other side at that time [28th
Ave. gang].

JB: On the west side of the creek?

GL: Yes, I was on the west side of the creek. We used to live on the east side but we moved
over on the west side. The kids used to have gang wars! Slingshots, I’m not kidding you. Yes,
slingshots. I was too young to have a slingshot – the older kids handled the slingshot – but I
used to carry rocks. You used to use garbage can lids for protectors.

[Laughter from the group]

GL: Yes! I’m not kidding you. This is true. You’d have a bag with rocks and you’d give the
rocks to the boys with the slingshots. The older boys had the slingshots. By the time I got older,
that activity wasn’t going on anymore. Everybody was friendly and there weren’t any wars
among the kids.

JB: Why did it change?

GL: Why it changed? I don’t know whether everybody just got smarter or we were disciplined
by our folks. Most kids in those days, they were very well disciplined. Whatever their dad said,
that was it. No ands, ifs or buts about it. So, we learned to get along and, of course, the folks,
they were friendly. It was both sides of the creek, they were all Italians – a lot of Italians [other
nationalities too].

JB: On both sides?

GL: On both sides, yes. So, that wore off eventually but they used to have some mean battles
there.

PN: Where did they fight? Did they actually fight across the creek?

GL: Yes, yes. And Robert Rimpini one time, I remember I lived on the west side and Robert
Rumpini, he was on the east side. He was behind a tree and he stuck his foot up there, and he
said – I don’t know who he was talking to but you could hear each other across the creek. It
wasn’t that far away, you know. He said, "See if you can hit my foot."
This kid with a slingshot shot at him and he hit him in the head! He hit him in the head. Of
course, the folks, they didn’t like that. Anyway, I don’t think it was too long after that why the
kids never used to fight anymore. So, then they’d have ball games between sides.

JB: Baseball?

GL: Yes, that was more peaceful.

[Laughter]

JB: Where were the baseball games played?

GL: At Youngstown field. That was all our entertainment. In the summertime, we got out of
school that was our entertainment for the year, to go up to the park and play ball or play tennis.
That was it. Once a year, they had a – oh, I forget what they called it now – they have a name
for it. It was a trip, they went to some camp and you stayed overnight [camp at Lake
Washington].

JB: Camp Long? Was it Camp Long just up the hill?

GL: No. [There was no Camp Long at that time.] Now, Camp Long, there used to be a grocer,
his name was Long but I don’t know if the camp was named after him or not. No, Camp Long
wasn’t in existence then. They used to go over on Lake Washington someplace and stay the
night. That was a big trip for us in those days.

JB: Do you remember the Maypole celebrations?

GL: They had a picture of us in the newspaper. No, I don’t know if Mary Alice [Fort Willi] had
a copy of that or not. I know I don’t have one. I remember being all dressed up. They had this
pole and it had these ribbons. Everybody had to hold a ribbon, and you went around the pole of
something.

JB: How did you get chosen the king?

GL: Oh, I don’t know. I don’t remember that.

JB: Did the teachers choose or did the students?

GL: I don’t remember. I remember Mary Alice and I, but I don’t know how they arrived at that
conclusion. Maybe I was the only boy in the class!

[Laughter]

JB: Did you say that your family then moved from Youngstown to West Seattle when you
started going to Holy Rosary?

GL: That was 1931.

JB: Nineteen thirty-one, OK.

ML: Genesee Street there.

JB: Why did they move?

GL: They bought a new home. They had rented all their lives long – of course, it wasn’t that
many years – but they had rented in Youngstown there. We moved about three times. We lived
on this side of the creek, we moved on the other side of the creek, then we moved again on the
other side of the creek. Then, in 1928, they bought the home. They bought the home up in West
Seattle there.

PN: Did you ever rent a house from the steel mill?

GL: No.

PN: No? I know a lot of [the local houses] were owned by them.

GL: I didn’t know the steel mill owned any houses [except when they expanded they needed
more space, bought houses and moved them out].

PN: Oh, really? Maybe not then. I think they might have bought them later.

JB: Was your father still working at the steel mill when you moved?

GL: Oh, no, no.

JB: What did he do?

GL: Because 1932, that’s when they repealed the Prohibition Act. That’s when he had the beer
tavern, that was in the same location [28th and Andover].

JB: Since this isn’t on the tape, talk about your father’s pool hall. He ran a business of a pool
hall right across from the entrance to the steel mill. Did men come there after work?

GL: Yes, after work and lunchtime. I don’t know, they might have had food. I really don’t
remember that. But after work, yes. You know, I don’t like to talk about that but they were
bootleggers!

[More laughter]

GL: Just be honest about it. They were bootleggers. That was during Prohibition.

PN: [teasing] I don’t think anybody’s going to arrest him now for that!

[Tape cuts out]

GL: Real common in those days. During Prohibition, a lot of people bootlegged. They were in
competition with each other, their own nationality. But that’s the way it was. Even people up in
West Seattle, up in the residential, some Italian people, they were bootlegging.

JB: That was just part of the pool hall was the –

GL: Yes. Of course, in 1932, that’s a beer tavern.

[Tape cuts out again]

GL: Riverside had a pool hall and they were bootlegging down there. I’m sure they were. I’m
sure there was business up in West Seattle. What do you know about the steel plant?

[Tape cuts out]

JB: Let’s talk about 1932. You said FDR came into office and Prohibition was repealed. What
did your father do then for business?

GL: They converted the pool hall to a beer tavern. That’s when beer was legalized. In 1932,
1933, whenever it was. So, they had the beer tavern there. Then in 1937 – 1937? – they changed
the entrance to the steel mill. They closed the entrance there on Andover Street, Twenty-Eighth
and Andover. They moved the entrance over on Charlestown Street and Delridge Way.
But that wasn’t Delridge Way at that time. It used to be Twenty-Fourth Avenue Southwest.
When they closed the entrance to the steel mill there and moved it over on Charlestown Street, it
hurt [my father’s] business.
Then, Mr. Byers owned the hardware store. That’s where we have that [building] now.
Anyway, Byers had the hardware store and it was made in two sections. He used one section just
for storage. My dad and his partner asked Byers if they could rent half the building for a tavern.
He agreed to it, they made up a lease.
So, they moved the tavern from Twenty-Eighth and Andover there over to Charlestown
Street on Delridge Way. That wasn’t Delridge Way yet, it was Twenty-Fourth Avenue
Southwest. Maybe it wasn’t. I’m not sure because [my father] changed the name of
Youngstown to the Delridge Tavern after [24th Ave. S.W. was changed to Delridge Way S.W.].
Anyway, it came over to Delridge Tavern.

JB: Is that the same location where the tavern still is today?

GL: Yes. Well, it’s not a tavern now. It hasn’t been a tavern for years.

ML: You took over when Dad retired.

JB: Let’s get to the part.

GL: Well, my dad got sick in 1944. I worked at Boeing, I started working at Boeing in 1936. I
got deferments and I just stayed at Boeing all during the war. My dad got sick in 1944 so he
leased the tavern out. When war ended, I didn’t go back to Boeing, I went into the tavern. I
leased it from my dad. I had it from 1945. Oh, and then in 1947 –

ML: Your brother, too. Your brother came in with you.

GL: Nineteen forty-seven, yes. In 1947, my brother came in. He was in California, he worked
for United Airlines. He quit his job and he ran the tavern with me.

JB: What was his first name?

GL: Guido.

JB: How long did you run the tavern?

GL: Well, I ran it from 1945… thirty-six years. [1981] Eighty-one, I guess.
When they were building West Seattle Bridge, there was a truck that was parked up on [23rd
S.W.], halfway up the hill, loaded with crushed gravel, truck and trailer. The driver went down
to find out where they wanted this gravel dumped. While he was walking down the hill, the
brakes let loose of the truck and it came down Twenty-Third across Delridge Way, and right into
the tavern.

PN: Oh, my gosh!

GL: That building was in two halves. The hardware store on one half and the tavern here. That
truck came right – just like they cut it out – it went right through there. The front end of the
truck was in the hardware area. The back end of the truck was in the tavern. It demolished the
tavern. I was there by myself then.

[Tape cuts out]

END OF AUDIOTAPE, SIDE A

[Side B begins with Judy speaking]

JB: Did you rebuild the tavern then after the truck came down?

GL: Yes. Rebuilt the whole tavern and I kept it one year.

Guido passed away in [19]75. This bartender, he took the tavern over and he had it for about
two or three years. Then that’s when we had the accident with the truck. I took it back and I
rebuilt it. I kept it one year and then I sold it.

JB: Tell me about the tavern and its place in the neighborhood. Who came to it, the tavern?

GL: Steel workers, a lot of steel workers were customers. And people in the neighborhood. A
lot of steel workers lived in the neighborhood and up on the hill here. I drew business from the
shipyards, some of the shipyard workers when they got off work.
But mostly steel mill, steel workers, and people in the area – neighborhood.

JB: On Friday nights or any particular night?

GL: Oh, yes. Friday and Saturday night.

JB: Those were the big nights?

GL: A lot different now than it was in those days. It was a form of entertainment. You don’t
have the variety of entertainment you have today. You know, thirty-four years ago, it was more
confined.

ML: You had shuffleboard and the games [pool].

GL: Yes, we had shuffleboards and we had little pool tables. Had league play. That was
recreation for a lot of people, besides drinking beer. We had league play and pool teams and
shuffleboard teams. [We won many trophies. We were Washington State shuffleboard
champions.]

JB: You were living at that time in what we call West Seattle. Did you see any changes in the
neighborhood in Youngstown over the years?

GL: You go through Youngstown now and you see a lot of improvements. Years ago, it was
kind of a rundown area, you know what I mean? Every city has them, I guess. Some areas not
as nice as others. But it’s improved a lot, they have some nice homes, [beautiful homes up on
the hill.] Did you see the beautiful homes they have up here on the hill by the school? Thirty,
forty years ago nobody would ever think of building – of course, I’m sure the school is what did
it.

JB: Other people have said it was called Poverty Gulch or Garlic Gulch, too?

GL: Garlic Gulch.

JB: Was it?

GL: Garlic Gulch. Pigeon Hill. We referred to that as Pigeon Hill. I don’t know why.

JB: Still is.

GL: Yeah, they still call it Pigeon Hill.

PN: Do you remember strikes at the steel mill?

JB: Were there strikes at the steel mill?

GL: Yes, there were several times. The union, they were pretty strong. During the [19]40s and
the [19]50s, they were real strong [1960]. I don’t believe there were actually any strikes but they
did threaten to walk out, the steelworkers. I suppose it was sanctioned by higher-ups in the
union. Yes, they threatened to walk out several times. Whether they actually did, I don’t
remember them walking out. I know they threatened several times.

JB: How did the steel mill affect the neighborhood? Do you remember living there?

GL: It helped the economy of the neighborhood. But as time went on, there were fewer and
fewer people that worked at the steel mill. Before the automobile was… how do you say the
word?

JB: Invented?

GL: Before everybody had a car, people lived by their jobs because they had to walk or take a
bus. Not a bus but they had a little streetcar. They used to have a streetcar, they called it the
"dinky." The main streetcar came down Fauntleroy to Spokane Street, down along the
waterfront and up town. Well, they had a little dinky that ran from Spokane Street up Twenty-
Sixth Ave.– see Twenty-Sixth Avenue used to go right up through the steel mill, where the steel
mill is now. Of course, the steel mill bought the property and then they closed the street.
But Twenty-Sixth Avenue from Spokane Street came up to Andover. Then from Andover, it
went over to Twenty-Eighth Avenue Southwest, then they’d take a left, go up Twenty-Eighth
Avenue Southwest all the way up to where the golf course is now. At that time, it wasn’t a golf
course, it was a city dump. And the dinky just ran between Spokane Street and the dump to
service the people that lived in Youngstown. Nobody had cars in those days. I’m going back
maybe early [19]20s, 25, 26.
That dinky, the kids used to get on it and, oh, they used to give the conductor a bad time.
They’d get on the back of the cow catcher, what they called a cow catcher, like a big screen.
They’d get on it there and they’d go, and they’d rock it off the tracks. Then they’d help [the
conductor] put it back on.

JB: They’d actually rock the streetcar off the track?

GL: Oh, sure. It wasn’t a big streetcar. They called it the dinky and it was a little streetcar. I
don’t know how many people it held, maybe ten, twelve people. It was kind of light and you get
five or six guys on the cow catcher, and you’d bounce it up and down. It would go off the track.

JB: This was as it went through Youngstown they did this?

GL: Yes. It serviced the people in Youngstown. They’d go down to Spokane Street, get on the
main streetcar and go up town.

JB: Do you remember when the tide flats came up as far as Andover Street?

GL: The what?

JB: When you were a child, did the water come up as far as Andover?

GL: Oh, yes! On Spokane Street, there were – well, the Port of Seattle took it over now – on
Spokane Street, that used to be tide flats in there, north of Spokane Street. The tide used to come
all the way up to Spokane Street. I remember a boy drowning there. I was only about five or six
years old. When the tide came in in the summertime, like today, the kids would go down there
and they’d swim. Well, I wasn’t allowed to go down there and, consequently, I never learned to
swim. To this day, I don’t know how to swim! But, anyway, the tide used to come in. The steel
mill used to fill it in with slag from the open hearth and, eventually, they filled it all in. It goes
way north of Spokane Street all the way to the bay. That water used to come all the way in there.

PN: Boy, that would be pretty toxic!

JB: What kind of work did your father do for the steel mill? What was his job?

GL: I remember him talking about it. During the war [World War I], they donated this one
day’s work – all the workers at the steel mill donated this one day’s work to the war effort. In
what capacity, I don’t know, but it was for the war effort. They donated that day’s labor. That
was the biggest production day they had ever had at the steel mill. Everybody worked hard,
really produced. I remember him talking about that.

JB: What haven’t we asked you about Youngstown that we should be asking you?

ML: Anything new that you can remember that they haven’t asked you? What happened to the
tavern after you closed it? You took over afterward? We sold it to a restaurant, didn’t we?

GL: After we sold the tavern… When I got out, dope and narcotics, they were coming in.
After I sold the tavern – the fellow I sold it to, he had a ten-year lease – he had it for nine years
and then he decided to sell out. He sold it to this woman and she went bankrupt, had to close it
up. So, I said, "No more tavern." After this woman went bankrupt, I took the tavern back and I
leased it out to a fellow and his wife that opened a restaurant. It’s been a restaurant ever since.

JB: The Madison Café.

PN: Oh, that was Madison’s? The first restaurant there?

ML: Madison was the first restaurant there.

GL: Well, it changed hands. [To Mae] Bill… what was his name? Bill [Pritchard] and his
wife [Kathy] ran it. They had a real nice business, a good business. Then they sold it and a
fellow bought it. He wasn’t a restaurant man. He didn’t do too good so, he sold it. The people
that have it now, they folded up, and now it’s in the process of changing hands again.
The fellow that’s going to operate now… what’s he going to have [breakfast-lunch-dinner]? I
hope it works out for him.

JB: Was crime a problem when your father was running the pool hall or when you ran the
tavern? Did you feel that crime was a problem in the neighborhood?

ML: You didn’t have a problem with crime, did you?

GL: No. The only crime – George Holman, he had the drugstore and the butcher shop where
the deli is now. Do you know where the deli is now? Before, that used to be a big apartment
house there. A big wooden apartment house behind the drugstore and the butcher shop. Used to
be a butcher shop there and grocery store – drugstore. George Holman, he was the owner.
[pausing] I’m getting off track now.

ML: What were you going to say?

JB: Whether there was any crime.

GL: Oh, yes. George Holman and he had the drugstore but he had a pharmacist working for
him. One night – George had a panel truck – and it was parked on Andover Street. He gets in
his panel truck and there’s somebody in the back there who said, "This is a stick-up. Give me
your money bag." They used to put their money in a bag at night and bring it home. George had
a gun, he turned around and shot the guy. The guy didn’t have a gun, he just hit [George] with
his finger. And he killed him.

ML: The tavern’s been robbed a few times when you were in business.

GL: One time they rolled the safe. In fact, the safe is still there, I think. They took the safe,
that was when my dad had it. They rolled the safe out of the back door and down a ramp. They
hauled it away. Found it about a year later in Cedar River. Of course, they had opened it up and
got the money, whatever was in there. Anyway, they found the safe in Cedar River. It was in
the wintertime [when the safe was stolen]. In the spring, when the water [river] went down, they
found the safe in Cedar River! They got it back. I think it’s still in the building. It may be. It
may still be there.

ML: There wasn’t too much crime at that time, when you were going up there to Youngstown,
was there?

GL: Crime wasn’t a big problem, I don’t think. Dope was worse. When dope came in, I forgot
what year it was. I got out just about the right time.

[Tape cuts out]

JB: So, tell me about your experiences with Longfellow Creek.

GL: My friend and I – Homer – we were about ten, eleven years old. Our mothers would make
a lunch for us and we’d start down in Youngstown here by Andover Street, down in there. We’d
pack a lunch, take it with us, and we fished the creek from there all the way up to Brandon
Street. That’s where the golf course ends, on Brandon Street. It would take us all day to fish.
We’d be fishing with worms and have a little stick with a piece of string on it, you know. We’d
catch some fish. I can remember, when I was too young to fish it, my brother and his friend, they
used to gaff salmon in the creek! Salmon would come up from the bay and spawn up the creek.
That’s before the steel mill diverted the water to cool off their rolls. It ruined the creek. Of
course, the salmon couldn’t come up and spawn anymore. But now I think they’re fixing it so
the salmon can come up and spawn again. They’re going to make it for kids.

JB: So, when you say they would catch the salmon, would they make their own spears? To gaff
is to spear it, right?

GL: It’s just a hook, just a big hook on the end of a pole. Like a broomstick with a hook. Gaff
salmon. I don’t know what they did with them. They were so numerous.

JB: Did you catch salmon when you were using a worm or did you catch a different kind of
fish?

GL: Yes, we used to use worms. The creek was a little bigger than it is now because the water
used to come in from the bay. The tide would come in. It was a bigger creek than it is now.
We used worms. We’d dig worms in the backyard. You’d lay a gunnysack someplace and wet
it, on a dirt area. Leave it there for a couple days and keep it damp, and the worms would be
there.

[Laughter]

JB: That was great. After school, did you go straight home or did you play in the
neighborhood? What did you do after school?

GL: In grammar school?

JB: Um-hmm. When you were at Youngstown?

GL: We’d go right home. We went right home, we wouldn’t go around. Unless we went to a
friend’s house just to play for a couple hours or so. You always had to be home for dinner.

JB: Oh! You had mentioned Mary Alice and spaghetti. Tell me about that.

GL: Her mother, she baked. She’d bake a lot, I guess. We lived right next door to them. She’d
bake apple pies and she’d bring it over to the house. Of course, we loved home-baked apple pie.
My mother would make spaghetti sauce and so they exchanged the pie for the spaghetti sauce.
They were wonderful neighbors. Mary Alice’s dad, he used to take us to the zoo during the
summertime, maybe two or three times. I remember that. He was a great guy. I enjoyed that.
That was our summer enjoyment was going to the zoo two or three times. You had to entertain
yourself. You had to make your own toys. We used to get a spoked wheel, take all the spokes
out of it so you just had a round wheel. Then you’d make a – I don’t remember what you even
called it. Years ago, you didn’t have wallboard. All they used to use was lathe, little boards
about that wide and that thick. [gesturing with his hands] We used to use lathe and we’d make
a cross out of it. We’d take the wheel and just go down the sidewalk, and push the wheel. Then
you’d hook it if you wanted to stop. We used to make our own carts, little carts. We’d go to the
dump.

JB: The dump where the golf course is?

GL: Yes, the dump was where the golf course is now. We’d look for wheels. If you’d find
some wheels, you’d make a little go-cart. We had to entertain ourselves, you know. It’s not like
today.

JB: Did you ever go over the hill, Pigeon Hill, and down to the river? Or was that off-limits?

GL: Riverside? That was out-of-bounds for the smaller kids. When we got older, yeah, we
used to play football against them. Like when we were in high school, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen
years old. They had neighborhood teams during the summer. They had neighborhood teams and
we played, and I forget what they used to call us.

JB: Gulch Rats.

GL: Dagos or something.

[Laughter]

GL: You don’t hear that expression anymore, wops. Or even dago, you don’t hear that
anymore. In those days, it was an insult but we used to hear it.

JB: Were there other insults traded? Who would be insulting you, who would be using those
words?

GL: Probably kids, if we’d do something they didn’t like. Then they’d call you a name. You’d
even hear elderly people use those words at times. Eventually it wore off. You don’t hear it
anymore.

JB: OK, anything else that you remember about Youngstown School or the neighborhood?

GL: Youngstown School… Well, like I said, I left after the fifth grade.

ML: How about the neighbors that used to come down to the tavern at night to spend time?

GL: The neighbors at the tavern? Oh, yeah. People that lived in the area.

JB: What would they talk about at the tavern?

GL: What would they talk about? Just like today, politics and religion [sports], whatever. I
don’t know. Things weren’t as – what am I trying to say here? Today on television, what you
see, you never had any of that. Like sex on television today, it’s getting pretty raw. In those
days, people were probably just as bad… well, maybe not as bad as people are today.

[The group laughs]

GL: Oh, I don’t know.

PN: Can I ask another question? One of the other people we talked to said that the Catholic
church was the hiring hall for the steel mill. It sounded like the steel mill was all Italians. Do
you think that was true?

GL: There were a lot of Irishmen.

PN: Irish?

GL: Oh, yes. There were a lot of Irishmen that worked in the steel mill. They weren’t all
Italian, no. The Italians, there’s a lot of them that lived in Youngstown here, you know. Some
of them lived up in West Seattle or up in the hill up here [referring to Pigeon Hill]. But quite a
few of them lived down there in Youngstown.

JB: Was there a Catholic church around here?

GL: No, just Holy Rosary up on the hill there [about two-three miles up the hill from
Youngstown].

JB: Is that the church you meant?

GL: [Yes.]

PN: I can’t remember if he even said which church. He said which Father, like he went to
Father Whatever.

ML: Lanigan.

PN: Might have been. You know I’d have to look back at [the interview].

ML: Uh-huh. He wasn’t Italian [no, Irish].

PN: No, I think it was an Italian name.

GL: [Mount Virgin Church in Rainier Valley had an Italian priest, Fa. Carmello.]

ML: Was it?

PN: Yes, I think so. So, I don’t know which church.

GL: We were married right there at Holy Rosary. My daughter was married there and my
granddaughter was married there.

JB: Tell us where you met. You were saying you met at the Youngstown Club?

ML: [Westside Italian Civic Club.] They started a Westside Club there. Is that where they
started it?

GL: Westside Italian [Civic] Club.

ML: Wasn’t it down here at Youngstown?

GL: [Yes.] That was started before the war.

JB: What was it called?

ML: Westside Italian Civic Club.

GL: Another thing when I was in school at Youngstown, on Friday nights, they used to have a
movie. You’ve probably heard of them – Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd, Buster Keaton.
They used to show those funny movies on Friday night.

JB: Silents.

GL: We’d come with our mother.

PN: Did they have a piano player that would play along with the movie?

GL: I don’t remember. They probably did. Most theaters had piano players that would play
that music. Friday night, that was a big deal, come up to the school and see the Charlie Chaplin
movie. Or Harold Lloyd.

PN: So, they played the movies at school?

GL: Yes, in – I don’t remember – assembly hall? They’d show it in there.

JB: The whole neighborhood came?

GL: A lot of people, sure. That was one of the things we did.

[Tape cuts out]

END OF INTERVIEW OF GINO LUCCHESINI ON JUNE 30, 2004.