SSCC: Engineering and Computer Science: Frequently Asked Questions

Frequently Asked Questions

I'm just starting at South and I want to succeed. What should I do?

First, and most importantly, meet with a counselor or advisor to plan your academic career at South. It is vitally important that you take the right classes at the right time. Otherwise you will likely find you cannot graduate on time or that you cannot get accepted into the 4-year program you want because you didn't take the right classes. You should get your AS or AA degree from one listed here . Since certain courses are only offered once per year, proper planning is vitally important. See the annual schedule of classes to help you plan your stay at South. While at South you should try to make friends with some of your classmates. Study together, do labs together. Studies have shown that students who work together usually learn more and get better grades. Additionally, engineers in the workplace usually work in teams on projects, so learning to work with other people is very important. Also, make sure you work on your communication skills. Employers want workers who can communicate with others (written and spoken communication). So work hard in your non math and science courses as well. Since a personal statement is required by many universities for admission, you may want to join a student organization, get a part time job or do volunteer work so you can have something to talk about besides your coursework. Also note that there are numerous resources on campus to help you succeed, from free tutoring to Student Success Services to internships .
I want to be an engineer but I'm not sure which type. What should I do?

Go to the Engineering Careers webpage to read about different branches of engineering. Also, take courses in different branches of engineering and see which ones you like the best. You will be happier and have more success in a career that you like. Keep in mind that you can easily change your major--it might put you behind a quarter or two, but what's a few months over a lifetime? Most American workers change their careers at least once over their lifetime, so don't worry about changing your major if you find you don't like the one you are currently studying.
What is the difference between engineering and engineering technology?

In the educational realm, engineering usually refers to the study of the science and art of applying scientific and mathematical principles, experience, judgment, and common sense to the design of things that benefit society. This involves getting a bachelor's degree at a four-year university. This is an academic degree--students will learn lots of math and science as well as practical engineering principles and techniques. Students at South should get an AS degree specific to their major to best prepare for transfer to a four-year university engineering program.

Engineering Technology can refer to two things. Firstly, a student may choose to get an AAS degree in Engineering Technology. This is a two year degree. This type of degree will prepare students by giving them the practical skills needed for work as an engineering technician. For instance, they may work at Boeing assembling airplanes. They generally work under the direction of engineers.

The second option is for students who wish to get a four year degree in Engineering Technology at a regional four-year university such as Western Washington University, Central Washington University, or Eastern Washington University. A bachelor's degree in engineering technology differs from an engineering degree in that it emphasizes practical skills more than mathematical/theoretical. Students with a bachelor's in Engineering Technology often have more hands-on laboratory experience than those with a traditional Engineering degree and therefore can often find work easier than engineers can. But because engineering technology majors don't have strong theoretical backgrounds, they often do not get paid as highly or advance as far as engineers do. Students who want a bachelor's degree in Engineering Technology should get the AS degree specific to their major to best prepare for transfer to a four-year Engineering Technology program.

To see a graphic showing the what engineers and engineering technologists do, click here. And remember, be sure to plan your academic career with an advisor or counselor, or contact Loc Nguyen, faculty coordinator for Drafting/CAD and Engineering Technology ( ).
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What is the difference between Computer Science and Computing and Software Systems?

Computer Science majors learn the theory of programming--how to write clean, efficient, well-documented code. They usually don't concentrate on any one operating system or languange. They learn more theory and use more mathematics and therefore are better prepared for graduate school. Computing and Software Systems are degrees offered by the UW Tacoma and UW Bothell campuses. This degree has less math and theory and instead concentrates on preparing students to work in the software industry writing or testing software (usually Windows based). You learn more practical programming skills specifically useful to the local software industry. The Computing and Software Systems programs at the UW branch campuses are much easier to get into than Computer Science programs at most universities.
How is Computer Engineering different from Electrical Engineering and Computer Science?

Computer Engineering combines elements of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. Computer engineers work on both hardware (electric circuits) and on software. For example, a Computer Engineer might write the device driver software that allows a device like a mouse work with a computer. They would have to have an understanding of both the programming and of the electronics of the device in order to do this. Computer Engineers are highly sought after by employers and the starting pay is higher than most other engineering disciplines. Entrance to Computer Engineering departments at Washington state universities is highly competitive. See the Career Information page to learn more about Computer Engineering.
Why does South have a prerequisite for CSC/EGR 142 Programming for Engineers? At the UW students can just take 142 without having to take a more basic computer course. This extra course delays my graduation and costs me money.

Computer instructors at the South, North and Central campuses found that students who jumped straight into 142 often did not succeed. CSC 142 uses the Java programming language--an object-oriented language. This type of language is hard to learn as a first language. So they decided that students should take a class like CSC 110 Intro to Programming with Matlab or Visual Basic to get an introduction to basic programming concepts and object-oriented programming techniques. Students who have had prior programming experience can often get this prerequisite waived and jump right into 142. Contact the 142 instructor to see if you qualify.
Do I need to get an AS degree or can I just take some credits at South and then transfer to a university? I've heard the UW is harder to get into than it used to be.

State universities used to go by the Direct Transfer Agreement (DTA). If you had an AA or AS from a Washington comunnity college and met other minimum requirements, WA state universities had to accept you. But more people with AA and AS degrees were applying than they had open slots. So they are no longer honoring the DTA. While AS degrees (or AA for that matter) are no longer required to get into engineering schools across the state, they are highly recommended. The UW is still honoring the proportionality agreement, which states that at least 30% of all students admitted in an academic year will come from Washington community colleges. So the UW is accepting as many community college students as it always has. The UW has not become more selective for prospective transfers from Washington community colleges, but since more community college students are applying to the UW than ever, there is more competition for those slots.

That said, transferring to the UW is a much less predictable process for community college students than it used to be. Consider that under the old DTA, a student would be more or less guaranteed admission if she or he met a few relatively simple admission requirements. Under the comprehensive review admission process, a transfer applicant is not guaranteed admission if he or she earns a certain GPA. The application is evaluated "holistically" which means that the evaluation takes into account a number of factors, including: grades, preparation for a UW major, completion of an academic associates degree or completion of 90 transferable credits at a Washington community college. Since you will be competing with other community college students for a limited number of openings, it would be wise to get your AS degree. That is one more factor in your favor. For a more complete listing of the UW's comprehensive review admission criteria, you can visit the transfer admission requirements pages at: http://admit.washington.edu/BeforeYouApply/Transfer . See the next question for more information as well.
I've heard it is really hard to get into certain UW engineering majors. What can I do to ensure I get accepted?

The number one criteria for admission into the UW is completion of the courses required for admission. Go to http://www.engr.washington.edu/score/requirements.PDF to see which courses are required for your major. The second most important criteria are GPA--overall and GPA in math, science and engineering courses, as well as having a good personal statement explaining your educational and career goals, your background and your work, volunteer, or leadership experience. The third most important criteria is whether you have an AS (or AA) degree from a Washington Community College. The AS degree is important because currently more Community College students apply to the UW than they can accept. If you don't get the AS degree you will have a lower chance of getting accepted, as there are plenty of students with AA and AS degrees applying. The AS degree is recommended over the AA degree for most majors because it will best prepare you for engineering.

In addition to satisfying the appropriate pre-engineering course work, to be admitted to the UW, students must also satisfy the UW's core subject requirements (e.g., foreign language). The link to the core subject requirements is at http://admit.washington.edu/BeforeYouApply/Transfer/Requirements/Core.
I've heard that many technology and manufacturing jobs have shifted overseas the last few years. Will I be able to get a job when I graduate?

While some jobs have gone overseas, the numbers are actually fairly small. There are still more than 3.5 million workers employed as engineers and computer scientists in the US. We've seen a drop in the number of engineering students at South in the last three years, so there is likely to be a shortage of new engineering graduates over the next four years or so. That means you will likely have an easier time finding a job than new engineers have had in the last few years. Additionally, employers in one national survey said they expected to increase the number of new college graduates they hired in the 2006-07 academic year by 17.4 percent compared to 2005-06. Engineering and computer science made up 6 of the top 10 degrees in demand in the same survey. The US Department of Labor says "Overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good because the number of engineering graduates should be in rough balance with the number of job openings over the period from 2002 - 2012."
What are the advantages and disadvantages of going to a big state university versus a small private university to get my engineering degree?

Big universities like the UW or WSU have several advantages over smaller colleges or universities. They have more faculty and more specialty classes available. Usually you can specialize in a subfield. For instance, an electrical engineer could specialize in Power Systems or Communications or Control Systems. Most smaller colleges do not have enough faculty or the facilities to offer many specially courses. Large universities also do research. This means you not only get taught by instructors who are doing cutting edge research, but you often have the opportunity to participate in that research. This will not only give you valuable experience, but could earn you some money or credits or get your name on a published research paper or get a good letter of recommendation from the professor you are working for. Another advantage of the bigger schools is that because there are so many professors in a particular department, you won't likely get stuck with a bad teacher more than once. That is, you get to learn the skills and knowledge of a wide variety of faculty. At a small school you they may only have 7 or 8 faculty that teach all of the courses. What if several of them are not very good teachers? You will be stuck with them for several classes as well as learning from a more limited, less diverse pool of knowledge. Bigger schools often have a better reputation with employers, possibly because they have hired students from that school in the past (since there are many more graduates from big schools than small schools). Big state schools are usually much cheaper than private schools.

Small colleges have the advantage of smaller classes where you can get more attention from the instructor. At a big university you may be in a class with 40 students and the instructor may be busy with all of those students as well as doing research and not offer much help in or out of class. Smaller colleges also usually hire faculty that are good at teaching. This is because most small colleges do not do much (or any) research. Faculty just teach and usually are often a lot better teachers than their counterparts at big universities. At big schools, faculty are pressured to do research and publish papers. They often treat teaching as an afterthought. Private schools are more expensive than state schools, but they often have more opportunities for financial aid and scholarships, making the cost not much more than attending a state school.

Also note that community colleges are the best place for most students to take pre-engineering courses. Community colleges are much cheaper than public and private universities and usually have much smaller classes. Additionally, the instructors at community colleges are often better teachers than their counterparts at big universities because teaching is their only job--they don't have to do research like professors at big universities do.
I'm worried my grades are not good enough to get into the engineering or computer science program I want. What should I do?

SSCC has a grade forgiveness policy where you can repeat a class and have the higher grade replace the lower grade on your transcript. Upon successful completion of a repeated course, you can submit a formal request to the Registration Office to have the highest grade used in the GPA computation. But unless specifically requested, the first grade and the repeat grade(s) will be averaged.

Most Engineering departments at the UW recieve more applicants than they have open positions. Therefore the average GPA of those accepted is fairly high. See the admission statements for each department for more information on the average GPA of transfer students at the UW. If our grades aren't very high, you will likely need to compensate by having other things in your favor--like having taken all of the freshman and sophomore level courses needed for your major before transferring, a good personal statement on your application (perhaps explaining why your grades are low--did you take 15 credits while working fulltime? That's fairly impressive...), or extracurricular activities like employment experience, volunteer work, or participation in student organizations. Anything to show them you have the character needed to suceed in their program. They don't want to accept someone who will struggle and have to repeat courses. Those people take too long to graduate and prevent a new student from coming into the department. You should have a back up major in mind because you may get accepted into the university but not into the major you want. Keep in mind that at many smaller schools, especially the private ones, admission is not as competitive. They are often much easier to get into than schools like the UW.
What advice do you have for a student who is about to move on to a 4-year engineering program?

Make friends with students in your classes. Study and work on assignments together. Engineering is a tough subject--don't try to learn it on your own. Besides, in the workplace, engineers usually work in teams. By working together at school you will hopefully learn how to work in groups effectively. Also, most big engineering schools have free tutoring available. You should take advantage of this as you will likely find that your instructors are not as available for help as your community college instructors were.

Also, join a student organization or two. Most engineering departments have a student chapter of a national engineering society. Not only will you have a chance to network with students in your program but you can enter contests, like building a human powered submersible. These kinds of activities will look good on your resume. You should also try to get some work experience before you graduate. Employers are more likely to hire someone who has work experience than someone with no experience. You may be able to find a job on campus or you should at least volunteer to work a few hours a week in a research lab. Find a professor you like who is doing research on a subject you are interested in and ask to work in their lab. After a term or two you may even get paid to work. But more importantly, you will have the opportunity to learn laboratory skills and techniques that you would likely not otherwise be exposed to in your classes. Plus you might get your name on a paper that gets published in a journal. This would look good on a resume and will give you something to talk about in a job interview.

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Engineering Home
Frequently Asked Questions I'm just starting at South and I want to succeed. What should I do? First, and most importantly, meet with a counselor or advisor to plan your academic career at South. It is vitally important that you take the right classes at the right time. Otherwise you will likely find you cannot graduate on time or that you cannot get accepted into the 4-year program you want because you didn't take the right classes. You should get your AS or AA degree from one listed here . Since certain courses are only offered once per year, proper planning is vitally important. See the annual schedule of classes to help you plan your stay at South. While at South you should try to make friends with some of your classmates. Study together, do labs together. Studies have shown that students who work together usually learn more and get better grades. Additionally, engineers in the workplace usually work in teams on projects, so learning to work with other people is very important. Also, make sure you work on your communication skills. Employers want workers who can communicate with others (written and spoken communication). So work hard in your non math and science courses as well. Since a personal statement is required by many universities for admission, you may want to join a student organization, get a part time job or do volunteer work so you can have something to talk about besides your coursework. Also note that there are numerous resources on campus to help you succeed, from free tutoring to Student Success Services to internships . I want to be an engineer but I'm not sure which type. What should I do? Go to the Engineering Careers webpage to read about different branches of engineering. Also, take courses in different branches of engineering and see which ones you like the best. You will be happier and have more success in a career that you like. Keep in mind that you can easily change your major--it might put you behind a quarter or two, but what's a few months over a lifetime? Most American workers change their careers at least once over their lifetime, so don't worry about changing your major if you find you don't like the one you are currently studying. What is the difference between engineering and engineering technology? In the educational realm, engineering usually refers to the study of the science and art of applying scientific and mathematical principles, experience, judgment, and common sense to the design of things that benefit society. This involves getting a bachelor's degree at a four-year university. This is an academic degree--students will learn lots of math and science as well as practical engineering principles and techniques. Students at South should get an AS degree specific to their major to best prepare for transfer to a four-year university engineering program. Engineering Technology can refer to two things. Firstly, a student may choose to get an AAS degree in Engineering Technology. This is a two year degree. This type of degree will prepare students by giving them the practical skills needed for work as an engineering technician. For instance, they may work at Boeing assembling airplanes. They generally work under the direction of engineers. The second option is for students who wish to get a four year degree in Engineering Technology at a regional four-year university such as Western Washington University, Central Washington University, or Eastern Washington University. A bachelor's degree in engineering technology differs from an engineering degree in that it emphasizes practical skills more than mathematical/theoretical. Students with a bachelor's in Engineering Technology often have more hands-on laboratory experience than those with a traditional Engineering degree and therefore can often find work easier than engineers can. But because engineering technology majors don't have strong theoretical backgrounds, they often do not get paid as highly or advance as far as engineers do. Students who want a bachelor's degree in Engineering Technology should get the AS degree specific to their major to best prepare for transfer to a four-year Engineering Technology program. To see a graphic showing the what engineers and engineering technologists do, click here. And remember, be sure to plan your academic career with an advisor or counselor, or contact Loc Nguyen, faculty coordinator for Drafting/CAD and Engineering Technology ( ). . What is the difference between Computer Science and Computing and Software Systems? Computer Science majors learn the theory of programming--how to write clean, efficient, well-documented code. They usually don't concentrate on any one operating system or languange. They learn more theory and use more mathematics and therefore are better prepared for graduate school. Computing and Software Systems are degrees offered by the UW Tacoma and UW Bothell campuses. This degree has less math and theory and instead concentrates on preparing students to work in the software industry writing or testing software (usually Windows based). You learn more practical programming skills specifically useful to the local software industry. The Computing and Software Systems programs at the UW branch campuses are much easier to get into than Computer Science programs at most universities. How is Computer Engineering different from Electrical Engineering and Computer Science? Computer Engineering combines elements of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science. Computer engineers work on both hardware (electric circuits) and on software. For example, a Computer Engineer might write the device driver software that allows a device like a mouse work with a computer. They would have to have an understanding of both the programming and of the electronics of the device in order to do this. Computer Engineers are highly sought after by employers and the starting pay is higher than most other engineering disciplines. Entrance to Computer Engineering departments at Washington state universities is highly competitive. See the Career Information page to learn more about Computer Engineering. Why does South have a prerequisite for CSC/EGR 142 Programming for Engineers? At the UW students can just take 142 without having to take a more basic computer course. This extra course delays my graduation and costs me money. Computer instructors at the South, North and Central campuses found that students who jumped straight into 142 often did not succeed. CSC 142 uses the Java programming language--an object-oriented language. This type of language is hard to learn as a first language. So they decided that students should take a class like CSC 110 Intro to Programming with Matlab or Visual Basic to get an introduction to basic programming concepts and object-oriented programming techniques. Students who have had prior programming experience can often get this prerequisite waived and jump right into 142. Contact the 142 instructor to see if you qualify. Do I need to get an AS degree or can I just take some credits at South and then transfer to a university? I've heard the UW is harder to get into than it used to be. State universities used to go by the Direct Transfer Agreement (DTA). If you had an AA or AS from a Washington comunnity college and met other minimum requirements, WA state universities had to accept you. But more people with AA and AS degrees were applying than they had open slots. So they are no longer honoring the DTA. While AS degrees (or AA for that matter) are no longer required to get into engineering schools across the state, they are highly recommended. The UW is still honoring the proportionality agreement, which states that at least 30% of all students admitted in an academic year will come from Washington community colleges. So the UW is accepting as many community college students as it always has. The UW has not become more selective for prospective transfers from Washington community colleges, but since more community college students are applying to the UW than ever, there is more competition for those slots. That said, transferring to the UW is a much less predictable process for community college students than it used to be. Consider that under the old DTA, a student would be more or less guaranteed admission if she or he met a few relatively simple admission requirements. Under the comprehensive review admission process, a transfer applicant is not guaranteed admission if he or she earns a certain GPA. The application is evaluated "holistically" which means that the evaluation takes into account a number of factors, including: grades, preparation for a UW major, completion of an academic associates degree or completion of 90 transferable credits at a Washington community college. Since you will be competing with other community college students for a limited number of openings, it would be wise to get your AS degree. That is one more factor in your favor. For a more complete listing of the UW's comprehensive review admission criteria, you can visit the transfer admission requirements pages at: http://admit.washington.edu/BeforeYouApply/Transfer . See the next question for more information as well. I've heard it is really hard to get into certain UW engineering majors. What can I do to ensure I get accepted? The number one criteria for admission into the UW is completion of the courses required for admission. Go to http://www.engr.washington.edu/score/requirements.PDF to see which courses are required for your major. The second most important criteria are GPA--overall and GPA in math, science and engineering courses, as well as having a good personal statement explaining your educational and career goals, your background and your work, volunteer, or leadership experience. The third most important criteria is whether you have an AS (or AA) degree from a Washington Community College. The AS degree is important because currently more Community College students apply to the UW than they can accept. If you don't get the AS degree you will have a lower chance of getting accepted, as there are plenty of students with AA and AS degrees applying. The AS degree is recommended over the AA degree for most majors because it will best prepare you for engineering. In addition to satisfying the appropriate pre-engineering course work, to be admitted to the UW, students must also satisfy the UW's core subject requirements (e.g., foreign language). The link to the core subject requirements is at http://admit.washington.edu/BeforeYouApply/Transfer/Requirements/Core. I've heard that many technology and manufacturing jobs have shifted overseas the last few years. Will I be able to get a job when I graduate? While some jobs have gone overseas, the numbers are actually fairly small. There are still more than 3.5 million workers employed as engineers and computer scientists in the US. We've seen a drop in the number of engineering students at South in the last three years, so there is likely to be a shortage of new engineering graduates over the next four years or so. That means you will likely have an easier time finding a job than new engineers have had in the last few years. Additionally, employers in one national survey said they expected to increase the number of new college graduates they hired in the 2006-07 academic year by 17.4 percent compared to 2005-06. Engineering and computer science made up 6 of the top 10 degrees in demand in the same survey. The US Department of Labor says "Overall job opportunities in engineering are expected to be good because the number of engineering graduates should be in rough balance with the number of job openings over the period from 2002 - 2012." What are the advantages and disadvantages of going to a big state university versus a small private university to get my engineering degree? Big universities like the UW or WSU have several advantages over smaller colleges or universities. They have more faculty and more specialty classes available. Usually you can specialize in a subfield. For instance, an electrical engineer could specialize in Power Systems or Communications or Control Systems. Most smaller colleges do not have enough faculty or the facilities to offer many specially courses. Large universities also do research. This means you not only get taught by instructors who are doing cutting edge research, but you often have the opportunity to participate in that research. This will not only give you valuable experience, but could earn you some money or credits or get your name on a published research paper or get a good letter of recommendation from the professor you are working for. Another advantage of the bigger schools is that because there are so many professors in a particular department, you won't likely get stuck with a bad teacher more than once. That is, you get to learn the skills and knowledge of a wide variety of faculty. At a small school you they may only have 7 or 8 faculty that teach all of the courses. What if several of them are not very good teachers? You will be stuck with them for several classes as well as learning from a more limited, less diverse pool of knowledge. Bigger schools often have a better reputation with employers, possibly because they have hired students from that school in the past (since there are many more graduates from big schools than small schools). Big state schools are usually much cheaper than private schools. Small colleges have the advantage of smaller classes where you can get more attention from the instructor. At a big university you may be in a class with 40 students and the instructor may be busy with all of those students as well as doing research and not offer much help in or out of class. Smaller colleges also usually hire faculty that are good at teaching. This is because most small colleges do not do much (or any) research. Faculty just teach and usually are often a lot better teachers than their counterparts at big universities. At big schools, faculty are pressured to do research and publish papers. They often treat teaching as an afterthought. Private schools are more expensive than state schools, but they often have more opportunities for financial aid and scholarships, making the cost not much more than attending a state school. Also note that community colleges are the best place for most students to take pre-engineering courses. Community colleges are much cheaper than public and private universities and usually have much smaller classes. Additionally, the instructors at community colleges are often better teachers than their counterparts at big universities because teaching is their only job--they don't have to do research like professors at big universities do. I'm worried my grades are not good enough to get into the engineering or computer science program I want. What should I do? SSCC has a grade forgiveness policy where you can repeat a class and have the higher grade replace the lower grade on your transcript. Upon successful completion of a repeated course, you can submit a formal request to the Registration Office to have the highest grade used in the GPA computation. But unless specifically requested, the first grade and the repeat grade(s) will be averaged. Most Engineering departments at the UW recieve more applicants than they have open positions. Therefore the average GPA of those accepted is fairly high. See the admission statements for each department for more information on the average GPA of transfer students at the UW. If our grades aren't very high, you will likely need to compensate by having other things in your favor--like having taken all of the freshman and sophomore level courses needed for your major before transferring, a good personal statement on your application (perhaps explaining why your grades are low--did you take 15 credits while working fulltime? That's fairly impressive...), or extracurricular activities like employment experience, volunteer work, or participation in student organizations. Anything to show them you have the character needed to suceed in their program. They don't want to accept someone who will struggle and have to repeat courses. Those people take too long to graduate and prevent a new student from coming into the department. You should have a back up major in mind because you may get accepted into the university but not into the major you want. Keep in mind that at many smaller schools, especially the private ones, admission is not as competitive. They are often much easier to get into than schools like the UW. What advice do you have for a student who is about to move on to a 4-year engineering program? Make friends with students in your classes. Study and work on assignments together. Engineering is a tough subject--don't try to learn it on your own. Besides, in the workplace, engineers usually work in teams. By working together at school you will hopefully learn how to work in groups effectively. Also, most big engineering schools have free tutoring available. You should take advantage of this as you will likely find that your instructors are not as available for help as your community college instructors were. Also, join a student organization or two. Most engineering departments have a student chapter of a national engineering society. Not only will you have a chance to network with students in your program but you can enter contests, like building a human powered submersible. These kinds of activities will look good on your resume. You should also try to get some work experience before you graduate. Employers are more likely to hire someone who has work experience than someone with no experience. You may be able to find a job on campus or you should at least volunteer to work a few hours a week in a research lab. Find a professor you like who is doing research on a subject you are interested in and ask to work in their lab. After a term or two you may even get paid to work. But more importantly, you will have the opportunity to learn laboratory skills and techniques that you would likely not otherwise be exposed to in your classes. Plus you might get your name on a paper that gets published in a journal. This would look good on a resume and will give you something to talk about in a job interview.